TERRY GROSS, HOST:
That is FRESH AIR. I am Terry Gross. Subsequent in our collection of interviews on R&B, rockabilly and early rock ‘n’ roll, we now have my 1997 interview with Johnny Money, one among nation music’s most influential performers. He is in each the Nation Music and Rock & Roll Halls of Fame. A few of his best-known recordings embrace “I Stroll The Line,” “Ring Of Hearth” and “Folsom Jail Blues.” His early recordings have been on Solar Data, which was owned by Sam Phillips, who we simply heard from, and was essentially the most influential label that produced rockabilly.
I spoke with Money when his autobiography was revealed. Within the e book, he stated that after his hits within the ’60s, he did not promote big numbers of information, however he saved making music he is pleased with. However in 1994, he connected with file producer Rick Rubin, who had produced many rap and rock hits. The recordings they made collectively included many Money covers of latest rock songs, together with songs by 9 Inch Nails and Sting. And, because the autobiography says, the Money and Rubin collaborations rework Money’s picture from Nashville has-been to hip icon, and it gained him a brand new, younger viewers.
Quickly after we spoke in 1997, he introduced that he had Parkinson’s illness and was canceling the rest of his e book tour, which had simply begun. His analysis was later modified to autonomic neuropathy, a illness affecting the nervous system. Money died in 2003. Earlier that 12 months, he gained a Grammy for finest male nation vocal efficiency for his new model of “Give My Love To Rose,” which he first recorded on Solar Data in 1957. Here is his 1956 recording of “Get Rhythm,” which was produced by Sam Phillips on Solar Data.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “GET RHYTHM”)
JOHNNY CASH: (Singing) Hey, get rhythm. Once you get the blues, come on, get rhythm. Once you get the blues, get a rock ‘n’ roll feeling in your bones, put faucets in your toes and get going. Get rhythm once you get the blues. A bit shoeshine boy, he by no means will get low down. However he is acquired the dirtiest job on the town, bending low on the folks’s toes on a windy nook of a unclean road. Effectively, I requested him whereas he shined my sneakers methods to preserve from getting the blues. He grinned as he raised his little head. He popped his shoeshine rag, after which he stated, get rhythm. Once you get to the blues, come on, get rhythm.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: You grew up through the Melancholy. What are a few of the issues that your father did to make a residing whilst you have been a boy?
CASH: My father was a cotton farmer first. And – however he did not have any land, or what land he had, he misplaced it within the Melancholy. So he labored as a woodman – woodsman – reduce pulp wooden for the paper mills. Rode the rails on – in boxcars, going from one harvest to a different to attempt to make just a little cash selecting fruit or greens. Did each form of work conceivable, from portray to shoveling to herding cattle. He is all the time been such an inspiration to me due to the numerous sorts of issues that he did and the form of life he lived. He impressed me in order that – all of the issues he did, so removed from being a soldier in World Struggle I to being an outdated man on – in his patio, sitting on the porch, watching the canine, ? I take into consideration his life, and it might encourage me to go my very own different course. And I similar to to discover minds and the wishes of individuals on the market.
GROSS: You realize, it is fascinating that you simply say your father impressed you a lot. I am certain you would not have needed to steer his life selecting cotton.
CASH: I did. From – till I used to be 18 years outdated, that’s. Then I picked the guitar, and I have been selecting it since.
GROSS: (Laughter) Proper. Did you’ve a plan to get out? Did you very a lot need to get out of the city the place you have been introduced up and get out of selecting cotton?
CASH: Yeah. I knew that once I left there on the age of 18, I would not be again. And it was form of frequent information amongst all of the folks there that once you graduate from highschool right here, you go to varsity or go get a job or one thing and do it by yourself. And having been aware of laborious work, it was no drawback for me. However first, I hitchhiked to Pontiac, Michigan, and acquired a job working in Fisher Physique, making these 1951 Pontiacs. I labored there three weeks, acquired actually sick of it, went again residence and joined the Air Drive.
GROSS: You may have such an exquisite, deep voice. Did you begin singing earlier than your voice modified?
CASH: Oh, yeah. I’ve acquired no deep voice at the moment. I’ve acquired a chilly. However once I was younger, I had a excessive tenor voice. I used to sing Invoice Monroe songs, and I would sing Dennis Day songs that, like…
GROSS: Oh, no.
CASH: …He sang on the – yeah, songs that he sang on “The Jack Benny Present.”
GROSS: Wow.
CASH: Each week, he sang an outdated Irish folks tune. And subsequent day within the fields, I would be singing that tune if I used to be working within the fields. And I all the time beloved these songs. And with my excessive tenor, I believed I used to be fairly good, , nearly nearly as good as Dennis Day. However once I was 17, 16, my father and I reduce wooden all day lengthy, and I used to be swinging that crosscut noticed and hauling wooden. And once I walked within the again door late that afternoon, I used to be singing…
(Singing) Everyone going to have faith and glory. Everyone going to be singing a narrative.
I sang these outdated gospel songs for my mom. And she or he stated, is that you simply? And I stated, sure, ma’am. And she or he came to visit and put her arms round me and stated, God’s acquired his palms on you. I nonetheless consider that, ?
GROSS: She realized you had a present.
CASH: That is what she stated, yeah. She known as it the present.
GROSS: Effectively, how did you’re feeling about your voice altering? It should have shocked you when you have been singing like Denis O’Dea after which immediately, you have been singing like Johnny Money (laughter). How did…
CASH: Effectively…
GROSS: Yeah.
CASH: I do not know. I suppose once I was a tenor, I simply – and when it modified, I believed, properly, it goes proper together with these hormones, and all the pieces’s understanding actually good, ? I felt like my voice was changing into a person’s voice.
GROSS: Proper. Proper. So did you begin singing totally different songs as your voice acquired deeper?
CASH: Mm-hmm. “Fortunate Outdated Son,” “Reminiscences Are Made Of This,” “Sixteen Tons.” I acquired – I developed a reasonably uncommon type, I believe. If I am something, I am not a singer, however I am a tune stylist.
GROSS: What is the distinction?
CASH: Effectively, I say I am not a singer, so which means I can not sing, however – does not it (laughter)?
GROSS: Effectively, however – I imply, that is not true. I perceive you make a distinction, however you actually can sing. Yeah. Go forward.
CASH: Thanks. Effectively, a tune stylist is, like, to take an outdated folks tune like “Delia’s Gone” and do a contemporary, white man’s model of it. Plenty of these I did that means, ? I might take songs that I would beloved as a baby and redo them in my thoughts for the brand new voice I had, the low voice.
GROSS: I do know that you simply briefly took singing classes, and also you say in your new e book that your singing instructor informed you, , do not let anyone change your voice. Do not even trouble with the singing classes. How did you find yourself taking classes within the first place?
CASH: My mom did that. And she or he was decided that I used to be going to depart the farm and do properly in life. And she or he thought, with the present, I would be capable to do this. So she took in washing. She acquired a washer in 1942, as quickly as they acquired electrical energy. And she or he took in washing. She washed the schoolteacher’s garments and anyone she might and despatched me for singing classes for $3 per lesson. And that is how she made the cash to ship me.
GROSS: What was your response when the instructor informed you do not let anyone change what you are doing, , I am not going to show you anymore?
CASH: I used to be fairly comfortable about that. I did not actually need to change, ? I felt good about my voice.
GROSS: You left residence once you have been about 18. After which, how outdated have been you once you really went to Memphis?
CASH: Effectively, I went to Memphis after I completed the Air Drive in 1954. I lived on that farm till I went to the Air Drive. I used to be in there 4 years. And once I got here again, I acquired married and moved to Memphis. Acquired an residence. Began attempting to promote home equipment at a spot known as Residence Gear Firm. However I could not promote something and did not actually need to. All I needed was the music. And if someone in the home was taking part in music once I would come, I might cease and sing with them. Like one time, Gus Cannon, the person who wrote “Stroll Proper In,” which was successful for the Rooftop Singers. And I sat on the entrance porch with him day after day when I discovered him and sang these songs.
GROSS: Once you acquired to Memphis, Elvis Presley had already recorded “That is All Proper.” Sam Phillips had produced him for his label, Solar Data. You known as Sam Phillips and requested for an audition. Did it take lots of nerve to make that cellphone name?
CASH: No, it simply took the fitting time. I used to be totally assured that I used to be going to see Sam Phillips and to file for him that once I known as him, I believed, I will get on Solar Data. So I known as him, and he turned me down flat. Then two weeks later, I known as, turned down. Turned down once more. He informed me over the cellphone that he could not promote gospel music as a result of it was unbiased and never some huge cash, ? So I did not press that situation. However someday I simply determined that I am able to go. So I went down with my guitar and sat on the entrance steps of his recording studio and met him when he got here in. And I stated, I am John Money. I am the one which’s been calling. And when you’d hearken to me, I consider you may be glad you probably did. And he stated, come on in. That was a very good lesson for me, , to consider in myself.
GROSS: So what did Phillips really reply to a lot of the songs that you simply performed him?
CASH: He responded most to a tune of mine known as “Hey Porter,” which was on the primary file. However he requested me to go write a love tune or possibly a bitter weeper. So I wrote a tune known as “Cry, Cry, Cry,” went again in and recorded that for the opposite aspect of the file.
GROSS: Effectively, why do not we hear “Cry, Cry, Cry,” which was on the primary single that Solar Data launched by you.
CASH: OK.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “CRY, CRY, CRY”)
CASH: (Singing) Everyone is aware of the place you go when the solar goes down. I believe you solely stay to see the lights uptown. I wasted my time once I would attempt, attempt, attempt, ‘trigger when the lights have misplaced their glow, you may cry, cry, cry. Quickly your sugar daddies will all be gone. You will get up some chilly day and discover you are alone. You will name for me, however I will inform you bye, bye, bye. After I flip round and stroll away, you may cry, cry, cry. You are going to cry, cry, cry, and you may cry alone. When everybody’s forgotten, and also you’re left by yourself, you are going to cry, cry, cry.
GROSS: We’re listening to my 1997 interview with Johnny Money. We’ll hear extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF HERLIN RILEY’S “TWELVE’S IT”)
GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to my 1997 interview with Johnny Money.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: What was it like once you began to go on tour? You realize, after coming from the cotton fields, it is true, I imply, you’d been within the Military and also you’d been overseas, , with the Military. However what was it like for you within the early days of getting acknowledged, , touring across the nation?
CASH: Effectively, once I began taking part in concert events, I went out from Memphis to Arkansas, Louisiana and Tennessee. Performed the little cities there. However I might exit myself in my automobile and arrange the present, or get the present booked in these theaters. After which alongside about three months later, Elvis Presley requested me to sing with him on the Overton Park Shell in Memphis. And I sang “Cry, Cry, Cry” and “Hey Porter.” And from that point on, I used to be on my means. And I knew it, I felt it, and I beloved it.
So Elvis requested me to go on tour with him, and I did. I labored with Elvis 4 or 5 excursions within the subsequent 12 months or so. And I used to be all the time intrigued by his charisma, ? You’ll be able to’t be within the constructing with out Elvis – with Elvis with out him, ? And he impressed me so, along with his fireplace and power, that I suppose that inspiration from him actually helped me to go.
GROSS: What have been the temptations like for a younger married man like your self on the street, , slowly changing into a star?
CASH: Fame was fairly laborious to deal with, really. The nation boy in me tried to interrupt free and take me again to the nation, however the music was stronger. The urge to exit and do the present was lots stronger. And the temptations have been ladies, women, which I beloved. After which amphetamines not very a lot later. Operating all evening, , in our vehicles on tour. And we – the docs acquired these good capsules that give us power and preserve us awake. So I began taking these, and I appreciated them a lot I acquired hooked on them. After which I began taking downers or sleeping capsules to return down and relaxation after two or three days. So it turned a cycle. I used to be taking the capsules for some time, after which the capsules began taking me.
GROSS: I need to play what I believe was your first massive hit, “I Stroll The Line.”
CASH: That was my third file.
GROSS: And so that you wrote this tune. Inform me the story of the way you wrote it and what you have been fascinated about on the time.
CASH: Within the Air Drive, I had an outdated Wilcox-Homosexual recorder and used to listen to guitar runs on that recorder going (imitating guitar), just like the chords on “I Stroll The Line.” And I all the time needed to jot down a love tune utilizing that theme, , that tune. And so I began to jot down the tune. And I used to be in Gladewater, Texas, one evening with Carl Perkins, and I stated, I’ve acquired a good suggestion for a tune. And I sang the primary verse that I had written, and I stated, it is known as “As a result of You are Mine.” And he stated, “I Stroll The Line” is a greater title. So I modified it to “I Stroll The Line.”
GROSS: Now, have been you pondering of your individual life once you wrote this?
CASH: Mm-hmm. It was form of a prodding to myself to play it straight, Johnny.
GROSS: And was this – I believe I learn that this was presupposed to be a ballad. I imply, it was presupposed to be gradual once you first wrote it.
CASH: That is the way in which I sang it, yeah, at first. However Sam needed it, , up-tempo, and I put paper within the strings of my guitar to get that (imitating guitar) sound, and with a bass and a lead guitar, there it was. Naked and stark that tune was when it was launched, and I heard it on the radio, and I actually did not prefer it. And I known as Sam Phillips and requested him, please, don’t ship out any extra information of that tune.
GROSS: Why?
CASH: However he laughed at me. I simply did not like the way in which it sounded to me. I did not know I sounded that means, and I did not prefer it. I do not know. However he stated, let’s give it an opportunity. And it was only a few days till – that is all it took to take off.
GROSS: That is humorous. I imply, you’d heard your voice earlier than it, hadn’t you?
CASH: Mm-hmm.
GROSS: However – so it was one thing in your individual singing you were not liking once you heard it?
CASH: Effectively, the music and my voice collectively, I simply felt prefer it was actually bizarre and – however I acquired used to it in a short time. I do not know if that – I did not hate it, however I simply did not prefer it. I believed I might do higher.
GROSS: Effectively, let’s hear “I Stroll The Line.” It is a nice file. It was nice then, and it nonetheless is. That is Johnny Money.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “I WALK THE LINE”)
CASH: (Singing) I preserve an in depth watch on this coronary heart of mine. I preserve my eyes large open on a regular basis. I preserve the ends out for the tie that binds. Since you’re mine, I stroll the road. I discover it very, very simple to be true. I discover myself alone when every day’s by way of. Sure, I will admit that I am a idiot for you. Since you’re mine, I stroll the road.
GROSS: We’re listening to the interview I recorded with Johnny Money in 1997. We’ll hear extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF RARE EARTH SONG, “HEY BIG BROTHER”)
GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to my 1997 interview with Johnny Money.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
GROSS: I believe it was within the late Fifties that you simply began doing jail concert events, which you finally turned very well-known for. What acquired you began performing in jail?
CASH: Effectively, I had a tune known as “Folsom Jail Blues.” That was the hit simply earlier than “I Stroll The Line.” And the folks in Texas heard about it on the state jail and acquired to writing me letters asking me to return down there. So I responded and the – then the warden known as me and requested if I might come down and do a present for the prisoners in Texas. And so we went down, and there is a rodeo in any respect these exhibits that the prisoners have there. And in between the rodeo issues, they requested me to arrange and do two or three songs. In order that was what I did. I did “Folsom Jail Blues,” which they thought was their tune, , and “I Stroll The Line,” “Hey, Porter,” “Cry, Cry, Cry.” After which the phrase acquired round on the grapevine that Johnny Money is all proper and that you simply must see him. So the requests began coming in from different prisoners everywhere in the United States, after which the phrase acquired round. So I all the time needed to file that, , to file a present due to the response I acquired. It was far and above something I had ever had in my life, the whole explosion of noise and response that they gave me with each tune.
So then I got here again the following 12 months and performed the jail once more, the New Yr’s Day present. Got here again once more a 3rd 12 months and did the present. After which I saved speaking to my producers at Columbia about recording a type of exhibits. It was so thrilling. I stated that the folks on the market must share that, , and really feel that pleasure, too. So, a preacher pal, a pal of mine named Floyd Gressett set it up for us and Lou Robin and lots of different folks concerned at Folsom Jail. So we went into Folsom on February 11, 1968, and recorded a present stay.
GROSS: Why do not we hear “Folsom Jail Blues” out of your “Dwell At Folsom Jail” file? That is Johnny Money.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “FOLSOM PRISON BLUES – LIVE AT FOLSOM STATE PRISON, FOLSOM, CA – JANUARY 1968”)
CASH: Hiya. I am Johnny Money.
(CHEERING)
CASH: (Singing) I hear the prepare a-coming. It is rolling around the bend. And I ain’t seen the sunshine since I do not know when. I am caught in Folsom Jail, and time retains dragging on. However that prepare retains a-rolling on right down to San Antone. After I was only a child, my mama informed me, son, all the time be a very good boy. Do not ever play with weapons. However I shot a person in Reno simply to look at him die. After I hear that whistle blowing, I dangle my head and cry.
(CHEERING)
GROSS: That is Johnny Money stay at Folsom Jail. And Johnny Money has a brand new autobiography that is simply been revealed.
I suppose Merle Haggard was within the viewers for one among your San Quentin concert events. Will need to have been fairly thrilling to search out that out. That was earlier than he…
CASH: Yeah.
GROSS: …Had recorded, I believe, that he was in there.
CASH: Yeah. ’68 and ’69, proper on the entrance row was Merle Haggard.
GROSS: Yeah, and who knew?
CASH: I imply, I did not know that until about 1963, ’62. He informed me all about it. He noticed each present that I did there. And naturally, simply the remainder is historical past for Merle. He got here out and instantly had success himself.
GROSS: You realize, it is fascinating. You have all the time or nearly all the time worn black throughout your profession. And I used to be curious about studying that your mom hated it, too (laughter).
CASH: She – yeah. Yeah, she did.
GROSS: See, we now have one thing in frequent. Our moms do not like black.
CASH: Yeah.
GROSS: (Laughter).
CASH: However I find it irresistible.
GROSS: Me, too.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: However you gave in for some time. She began making you shiny, flashy outfits, even a pleasant white…
CASH: Yeah.
GROSS: …Go well with. What did it really feel like so that you can be on stage in shiny colours or all in white?
CASH: Effectively, I used to be – that was 1956, and I hadn’t been carrying the black for very lengthy. Oh, it was OK. I might put on something my mom made me, ? I simply could not afford to show her down. However earlier than lengthy, I made a decision to begin with the black and keep it up as a result of it felt good to me on stage that – a determine there in black and all the pieces popping out his face. That is the way in which I needed to do it.
GROSS: A number of years in the past, you began making information with Rick Rubin. Appeared initially like a really unbelievable match. He had produced lots of rap information and produced the Beastie Boys and the Purple Sizzling Chili Peppers. You realize, it might look like a stunning match. It might – it ended up being a implausible match. How did he strategy you?
CASH: Lou Robin, my supervisor, got here to me and talked to me a couple of man known as Rick Rubin that he had been speaking to that needed me to signal along with his file firm. It was American Recordings. I stated, I just like the identify. Perhaps it might be OK. So he stated, I would love you to go along with me and sit in my front room with a guitar and two microphones and simply sing to your coronary heart’s content material all the pieces you ever needed to file. I stated, that sounds good to me.
GROSS: Why do not we hear “Delia’s Gone” from Johnny Money’s “American Recordings” CD? And, Johnny Money, I need to thanks a lot for speaking with us.
CASH: I need to say you are actually good at what you do, and I admire you. Thanks.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “DELIA’S GONE”)
CASH: (Singing) Delia. Oh, Delia. Delia, all my life. If I hadn’t have shot poor Delia, I would have had her for my spouse. Delia’s gone. Another spherical. Delia’s gone.
GROSS: My interview with Johnny Money was recorded in 1997. He died in 2003. Tomorrow, we proceed our archive collection – R&B, rockabilly and early rock ‘n’ roll. We’ll hear from Johnny Otis, who had the hits “Harlem Nocturne” and “Willie And The Hand Jive” and found Little Esther, Jackie Wilson, Massive Mama Thornton, Hank Ballard and Etta James. You will additionally hear my interview with Etta James, who’s now finest identified for her recording of “At Final.” I hope you may be part of us.
FRESH AIR’s government producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Briger. Our interviews and critiques are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nyakundi, Anna Bauman and John Sheehan. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Our consulting visible producer is Hope Wilson. Roberta Shorrock directs the present. Our co-host is Tonya Mosley. I am Terry Gross.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “DELIA’S GONE”)
CASH: (Singing) However, jailer, oh, jailer. Jailer, I can not sleep ‘trigger throughout the bedside, I hear the patter of Delia’s toes. Delia’s gone. Another spherical. Delia’s gone. So in case your girl’s devilish, you possibly can let her run. Or you possibly can convey her down and do her like Delia acquired completed. Delia’s gone. Another spherical. Delia’s gone.
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